She Left Wall Street and Built a Thriving Cleaning Business (Here’s How)

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Finding the Right Business Path

Stephanie: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast. I’m your host, Stephanie Pipkin, and today’s guest is my friend Helen, who is the owner of Cool Peaches Cleaning Services in New Jersey. Helen, thank you so much for joining me. I’m so glad I was able to convince you, because I just love talking to you, and I think this is gonna be a great conversation. Thank you for joining me.

Helen: Oh my god, no. Stephanie, all the thanks is to you, because I totally didn’t think I deserved to be here, and you did convince me that I do. So I am so happy, and I’ve been looking forward to having a conversation, especially considering the path that has led me to finding you and being here.

Stephanie: Well, first off, I mean you absolutely are deserving. I want to talk to everybody who owns a cleaning business and you truly have had a really wonderful path. So, share how did you and I meet? Where did you start in your cleaning business? What did you do before? Spill all the tea!

Helen: Okay. So totally, I did not anticipate that at the ripe age of 45 I would be starting a cleaning business. I had ventured onto the whole corporate path. I had my Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science, went on to have an MBA in finance, did the whole corporate routes, and always thought that would be where I would be.

But things changed. Baby number one came, baby number two came, baby number three came. My priorities changed along with every kid that I had. When my third child turned about two years old, I left my corporate job. It just didn’t make sense anymore, so I did the whole stay at home mommy thing, and it was absolutely wonderful. I loved the time that I had to spend with my kids.

But as they got older and went to full time school and daycares, I found myself looking to do something more, but I didn’t want to go back to corporate. I didn’t want to do the whole commute, waking up at 5am barely seeing the kids.

At the same time, my friend had left her corporate job as well, and we decided to embark on real estate. Thus began my journey of entrepreneurship. We started by investing in properties – buy and hold properties. It was great, although we started in 2019 and we know what happened in 2020. Nonetheless, we did great. We started in New Jersey, ventured into North Carolina, and that was great until things started to become difficult for small real estate investors, so we decided to separate.

But it gave me a really great experience in running my own business or being part of a partnership, and it taught me what it’s like to work for myself. I still went back to corporate for a minute after we separated. But once you get a taste of working for yourself and understanding what you can do, at least for me, it was very difficult to work in a corporate environment again – to report to someone and be accountable to someone else rather than just myself.

Starting a Cleaning Business

Helen: So I started looking into starting a business, and it was a matter of finding the right business for me. I looked into a lot of YouTube videos where people discussed their own businesses and what they did, listened to a lot of podcasts. Eventually I found someone talking about running a cleaning business, and I thought it was a really cool idea, something that I understood.

I liked the fact that it was something you could run remotely, or you can be as involved, either remotely or on site, as much as you wanted. I found a coach, and I decided to dive in. At the end of 2023 I started Cool Peaches Cleaning.

When I start something, I love to listen to a lot of podcasts and YouTube videos. I found the ZenMaid summit – I forget what year it was, 2020 or 2021?

Stephanie: Probably that was the first time.

Helen: Okay, so it was the first one, and I heard you. I heard a lot of people, and they were all wonderful. But you came on and I was blown away. I mean, I was amazed at the amount of information you gave. I kept pausing and writing things down, taking screenshots.

I was so amazed at someone who was so young and really turned it into a company. It wasn’t a hustle or side thing, it was a real business. And I was completely in awe of you. And then at the end, when you said that people can connect with you and you do consulting, I’m like, “Oh my God, for sure, I am connecting.”

If it wasn’t that night, it must have been the next morning where I reached out to you and we connected, and you were so on point with everything. You were so personable, and you were able to tell me exactly what made sense and wouldn’t make sense, and it has helped my business tremendously. You gave me that support that I needed to really think, “Okay, I can do this.” And here we are.

Getting Those First Clients

Stephanie: Well, thank you, Helen. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink, and you are a very competent horse who could run her race just fine without me. But I am glad that you did reach out and we were able to connect. I really feel that you were made for this business, and you have a really good head on your shoulders for business, as well as for why people want to hire us.

Understanding your customer is so important, because if you don’t know how to speak to them, then it doesn’t matter how good your cleaning is. So how were you getting your first clients? I think it’s a pretty unique aspect considering your background in real estate.

Helen: Some of those skills from doing real estate were really transferable and helped me out a lot in this business. The first clients really were through Facebook posts. I advertised through Facebook in our local town page or other surrounding towns. So that was kind of the first way of getting customers.

Then I signed up for Google LSA, and I’m still part of it. That has been a game changer. If you’re able to start getting reviews and really build up your profile, it’s a great way to build a business and to get customers. It’s different from Google ads – it’s just local service.

Stephanie: We’re the same way – just being a Google certified local business. I personally do not recommend, at least in the beginning or even intermediate stages, doing Google Pay Per Click, because what they’re clicking on and going to is probably not very impressive, so you’re wasting that click.

Frankly, none of us are very impressive in the beginning. But if you can get some good reviews, build out your Google map location, which is completely free, then the leads are a lot more likely to come in. Is that where you would say you get most of your leads – through Google searching?

The Power of Networking and BNI

Helen: It’s actually that, but I have also joined a local BNI group. For those who don’t know, it’s called Business Network International. They have groups in pretty much every town where the purpose is to be part of a group of business owners, get to know each other and each other’s businesses, and refer people to those business owners.

For example, my pod has 32 people. The best part about it is that there could only be one cleaning service business owner, one real estate attorney, one gutter cleaning or contractor. And the best part is that you really get to know those people.

A lot of these services, I personally use – my tax accountant is part of the BNI group, as well as electrician, HVAC, and others. In our type of business, it’s kind of easy to refer, because a lot of people know others who need cleaning services. There’s one business owner in real estate, which is a great way to get referrals, and that leads to other real estate agents who deal with new clients all the time.

Facebook groups are great for advertising too, but actually the customers do the advertising now for me.

Stephanie: I love when they start commenting and posting you. By the time you even see the post, you already have like four or five people saying, “She’s great, go to Helen!” It feels good, and it’s also that social proof in a variety of ways.

We went to our local BNI free meeting, and we didn’t join because we were at max capacity – we couldn’t take any more business right then, which was a good problem to have. But definitely, I’ve heard so many good things about BNI. As you said, you’re going to be the only one in your pod that offers that service, but it’s really great for making those connections. People are way more likely to refer people that they know and like.

If you’re really struggling in the beginning and you’re not getting any traction, well, it’s the whole “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.” That is actually super true in our industry.

Helen: We actually met one of our companies that we refer back and forth to this day at BNI. Even though we didn’t join at that time, I may still consider it. We’re at that weird place where if we get too much business, we freak out, because it often happens.

Stephanie: I know. Every time someone asks me, “What’s your biggest struggle? Is it finding customers or finding workers?” I’m like, “It depends on the day.” Literally one day I’ll wake up and think, “Oh my God, we have so many clients, how are we going to get to everyone?” and then the next day it’s like, “Where are all the clients?”

The Cleaning Business Rollercoaster

Stephanie: I hate to break it to you that never ends. That’s just our purgatory, if you will. It’s just like this swinging back and forth between too many clients and too many cleaners. Every day is different, I swear.

But it’s better to have a wait list of clients. I’d rather have lots of people who want us and are waiting. It gives you a sense of exclusivity and that you’re a hot commodity.

The company that we actually recommend is ServPro, which I’m sure you’re familiar with – the ServPro franchise. You’d think, “Oh, they’re a cleaning company.” Well, not really. They do extreme situations, like damage from water or insects or fire, that type of stuff. Or hoarders – more extreme situations that we don’t do, but they also don’t do regular cleaning.

So if they get a call, or we get a call for the other’s types of business, we’ll say, “Nope, go to ServPro, they do that,” and they do the same thing for us. That’s great even with a company where you think, “Oh no, they’re in cleaning.” Well, no, they’re adjacent to us. Those are really good companies to go create relationships with – window washers, pressure washers, carpet cleaners. Don’t be afraid to hit them up and say, “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine.”

Helen: Exactly. That’s kind of what you get through BNI. We have someone who does flooring, basement restorations. And your clients, when they ask if you have somebody to recommend for those services, you can refer them.

Especially if a client is moving into a new home that they just purchased and needs various services. It’s great. But I didn’t know about ServPro, so that’s something I’ll need to look into as well. There must be one in our area too.

Stephanie: Absolutely, for sure. Or Service Master, I think, is kind of similar. Any of that extreme stuff that’s past our capabilities or desire to do.

I’m so happy that you brought up BNI. I definitely think it is worth the investment if you put into it what you need to, especially for newer owners who are struggling to get traction and word of mouth.

Helen: I joined literally as soon as I registered my LLC. Literally on the first step of creating a business. It seems scary coming in, not being an established business, but it has literally paid for itself tenfold. I just joined again for next year, and I think I will be a member for many, many years to come.

Learning from Client Mistakes

Stephanie: That’s awesome. So as you mentioned, getting clients has been fairly easy for you. What would you say are some of the biggest hiccups you had when it came to client stories or mistakes you felt like you made on the client side?

Helen: I think, listening to other business owners and some of the guests on your podcast, one thing everyone has in common is really getting the pricing correct and understanding the scope of the job. I’ve made so many mistakes, majority of the time unfortunately underpricing the job.

Lucky for me, my team members have stuck it out with me. There were jobs where I lost money for sure, and there were jobs that ended up being pennies on the hour. I felt awful. But with every mistake that I’ve made, I’ve learned, and the biggest takeaway was to ask many, many questions from the customer.

By no means does this mean that I no longer make mistakes – I still do all the time. But get as many details about the property as possible. I think, like your business, Stephanie, I don’t really do in-person consults unless it’s a very odd job or something very specific that I need to go see. All of my quotes are through the conversations that I have. I have learned to ask many, many questions. And what I’ve also learned is that customers, clients, they love answering questions. They love talking about their homes.

Stephanie: About themselves, I mean, and especially people who feel maybe in this area, they don’t have any right to complain because it just is how it is. Like, “I have to do housework. I have to do the cleaning. Everybody does. I shouldn’t get to complain about the workload.”

But if we can give them that space to vent about something that is taken for granted, that they just do regardless of their other responsibilities or the status quo – I could go for an hour on workload in a household, but we’re speaking to mostly women who have all of this on them and nobody cares.

So if we can give them that outlet and say, “I care, and I want to actually take it off your shoulders, and I hear you” – they feel so validated.

Helen: You’re 1,000% right. I open every conversation with “Tell me what’s up. Tell me what’s going on. Tell me about your home. Tell me what your needs are, what are you looking for? Bring me up to speed.”

It’s such a great open-ended question that allows customers to go into every space. It’s like getting your hair done – for some reason I bare my soul every six weeks, and I’m like, “Why did I say all that in that moment?”

Creating a Personal Connection with Clients

Helen: The feedback that I get from the majority of clients is, “I’ve talked to many other businesses.” For a lot of people, it’s such a big decision to hire a cleaning company. For some people, they’re just like, “Whatever, just clean my home, it’s a three bedroom.” But for others, it’s such a big decision.

And when they get to speak with someone for an hour about every piece and nook and cranny of their home, they feel heard. I know that I’ve gotten a lot of customers through spending that one hour on the phone listening to them. It could be not about their home – they sometimes tell me about their dogs or cats or kids. That’s a great way to really relate to the clients.

Pricing Challenges and Customer Expectations

Stephanie: What would you say when it comes to pricing, then? One of the biggest revelations I remember you having was letting the client dictate the work, versus you saying what you dictate. So I’d love for you to share what you think about that.

Helen: With pricing, that’s again coming back to it, it’s such a tough thing to tackle, understanding how to price the job. Every market is different. One of the things that I came up with was, instead of flat rate, we’re going to be charging by hour, and we are going to let the client pretty much dictate what we do.

I’ll preface this that it did not work well. Do not do this. This is one of those things that don’t do. It sounded like a good idea in theory, and to clients, it kind of sounded good too. I was like, “You’re the master of the show, you’re the director. You run the play. You tell us what you want done, and we’ll do it.”

But it backfired in so many ways. First of all, it was impossible to allocate the right amount of time for the appointment. So what ended up happening is that I couldn’t book any appointments after the first appointment, because you have no idea – all of a sudden the client wants the windows washed as well, and there’s no way to time how long it’s going to take.

Being properly prepared for the appointments didn’t work as well, because my team members had no idea what they were walking into.

And what happens with pricing by hour? I know you do it, and it’s interesting because I know it works for you, but it didn’t work so well for me. For example, if I had scheduled someone and it was by hour, and then something had changed, and instead of one person, two people would come – but I didn’t discuss that upfront because we just discussed it would be about five hours.

But if two ladies had come instead of one because I had to change something last minute, well, it ended up being two hours instead of five. So the payment was only for two hours. It wasn’t fair, because I didn’t discuss that if it was two cleaners it would be double, and if it was one, it would be one rate. It did not work out.

Don’t let the customers run the show. This is what you and I had discussed. You’re the business owner. You are going to dictate if it’s a deep clean, if it’s a standard follow-up clean. You’re the one who’s going to be dictating what that job will look like and allocate the proper amount of hours as best as possible.

Stephanie: I’m so happy you just said everything that you did, because it brings up a lot of things that new owners run into. We all have a lot of mistakes that we make, because we simply don’t know better.

Even the use of phrase “man hours” or “labor hours.” If you don’t use those words, and then you do what you talked about, like cutting it in half because you have two cleaners – well, now the client’s like, “I’m only paying for two hours” even though it’s two and a half, it’s still five man hours.

So using protective language literally in our customer guidelines – I made a stick figure diagram explaining what man hours means, because so many people don’t know what that means. I didn’t know what it meant before I started this business, so just always using that protective language.

Most pricing models can work, but they have to be very, very specific. The only way hourly works for us is because we know our production rates well. That’s really what you need to know for all pricing models – how fast you clean, what happens when they want to add something, all of these variables. It’s like that meme with the lady and all the numbers – that’s pricing, and scheduling too. It’s so accurate.

Helen: You’re 1,000% right. You really have to be very specific in defining all the terms and setting the expectations. And I totally had not done that. So the hourly pricing model could absolutely work, as long as it’s properly defined and explained to the customer.

Understanding Client Value Perception

Stephanie: The downside is customers, when they see that hourly, they get all sorts of thinking in their head and they start to judge what they believe is the value.

I’m definitely not telling you guys that hourly is the best way. I’m saying it’s the way we’ve chosen to focus on, and that may change in the future. Flat rate can work absolutely beautifully, but then you run into situations where suddenly it’s taking way longer than you thought, and now you’re losing money.

It all comes down to knowing how fast you can clean and adjusting in the future when you make a mistake with pricing. Next time you get a house that’s the same size, same condition, try $200 and see what happens. Really experimenting.

Helen: You’re 100% right. And then also ask more questions. I feel like I’m always adding more questions to ask. Like, “Is it post construction? Is there not just a basement, but an attic too? Is there an extra space that we’re cleaning?”

“Walk me through your house. Talk to me about the bathroom. We have hard water in New Jersey – how’s your kitchen? Tell me, do you have a dog? How many? Does he shed? Do you have a cat?” Those things – you just don’t know upfront until you come face to face with it, and then you understand that there’s a big difference.

Creating a Professional Customer Experience

Stephanie: And honestly, so many people think that customers are going to be turned away or annoyed by a really robust intake system. To me, all it does is scream that we know what we’re doing.

If I just have a number of bedrooms and bathrooms and spit out a price, this is why I don’t do prices on the website – I can’t give you an accurate price, and I’m going to bite myself in the butt or look stupid either on the front end or on the back end. On the back end, I’m going to have to adjust, or I’m losing money on the price.

But if I can ask all of these questions and come up with a cohesive custom price, and it’s based off my knowledge, it’s going to make them feel more confident. It’s like going to the doctor and telling the doctor, “I think I need my knee replaced,” and the doctor being like, “Well, if that’s what you think, okay, let’s do it.” No, the doctor says, “This is what you need instead, because I know, because I’m the doctor.”

Even when we’re talking about not letting the client dictate what they want – I will clarify for us, they can cut off rooms. We will absolutely allow them to do a limited hour thing where they just want kitchen and bath. That’s great, but they can’t say “don’t do the floors, don’t do the dusting.” They don’t get to do that, because all that’s doing is confusing the cleaners.

It’s giving them a lower quality product, even if it’s what they ask for. I don’t care if that’s what they think they want, it’s not going to feel good when they come in and the floors aren’t done.

Helen: I remember you telling me this during one of our initial calls, and that’s not something that you, as a new business owner, can think through. It seems like, “Yeah, you’re the client, you tell me what you want.”

But a lot of times, there are certain minimum standards that we need to follow, and that’s our protocol, and we stick to it, because at the end, you’re right, the customer is not going to be happy. It’s not going to make us look good. The outcome is not going to be great for everyone.

One thing that has saved me a lot of times is following up with an email confirmation. In that email, include all those little details that the customer wants – like if out of five bedrooms, they only want three cleaned, or if they want inside the fridge done.

Including those things in the email confirmation is important, because sometimes the job is booked today for three weeks out. Having that reference for you and the customer is super important, because you can always refer back to it: “This is what we discussed, and I sent you an email to confirm that this was our agreement.” Having that is huge.

The Importance of Documentation

Stephanie: Oh my gosh, so huge to have things in writing. When I say have a paper trail, that’s what I’m referring to. If you talk on the phone with a client, send a discussion summary over email so that it’s in writing and you have that paper trail.

Also, even giving them the benefit of the doubt, not saying that they’re going to try to screw you over – they may forget, or maybe you talk to one stakeholder, meaning you talk to the wife, and she okays it with the husband later.

Referencing back is important if the cleaning is in a month or three weeks, and immediately adding the notes to ZenMaid as well. Don’t try to rely on your memories.

Helen: Do not – it doesn’t work. You will speak to so many customers. Even if the cleaning is tomorrow, there’s still so many things that will happen between now and then. You just won’t remember.

I tell the customers, “You will receive an email confirmation. It will have all the things that you and I have discussed. Double check me – make sure that I got everything we’ve discussed. If there’s something that I’ve missed, let me know, I’ll be happy to correct it.” I think it makes us look professional as well.

Stephanie: Well and really, all of these things – you guys might think, “Oh, we’re pestering them,” but what we’re doing is putting them at ease that they made the right choice. “Wow, I’m being cared for in this service. They’re listening to me, they’re empathizing with me. They’re clarifying to make sure they have exactly what I want.”

That just screams to your client or your lead, “Wow, these people are professional, and they’re way better than those people who couldn’t even tell me the day they were going to come.” So it’s going to make you stand out.

It sounds like your communication skills have really excelled and just continue to get better as time has gone on. Is there any other area you feel like you have really transformed since the beginning?

Growing the Team and Balancing Business Size

Helen: Eventually my pricing did get a little bit better. I now have four teams of two. These ladies have been with me for a while – one of them has been with me from the beginning. And then she brought another lady, and then she brought others, so it’s been wonderful that I’ve been able to find really great people to work with me. If I mess up, they can back me up – they’re wonderful.

I’m still a one-woman show. All the admin stuff still goes through me. I think at least next year, I don’t foresee that changing.

Stephanie: Helen, that sounds right financially. I think I had seven to 10 part-timers before I even had a part-time admin person. I think from the internet, we all are like, “Oh my gosh, I should have an admin – you’re doing it wrong if you don’t have an admin person in the beginning.”

Obviously there are virtual assistant options for part-time. But I’ll give it to you straight, guys – you can’t afford an admin person unless you have a bunch of money that you’re investing in this. If you’re bootstrapping this thing, starting from zero like a lot of us did, you’re going to be doing the admin labor. It’s a really unreasonable expectation that you’re not, unless you have money to invest in it.

Helen: You’re 100% right. When you start out the business and you listen to other business owners who are way ahead of you, you think, “I want to have this huge company, and have cars that are going to be wrapped, and have different locations, and maybe go out of state.”

Now I’m like, I do maybe eventually want to get there, but I don’t want to get there as quickly as I thought. I like kind of being the mom and pop type of business, keeping it small, really knowing my customers, knowing my teammates. For now it works.

I am starting to understand that bigger is not always better. Maybe a year from now I’ll be singing a different song, telling a different story, I don’t know. But for now, I understand that having it the size that it is, it’s manageable, and it still gives me the freedom that I wanted with having this kind of business.

Growing at the Right Pace

Stephanie: I think the pace that we go is often the exact pace that we’re supposed to go. I look back at some of our biggest growth spurts and how out of control it felt at times. It was such a whirlwind.

Now we’re at a much more stable place. At times we’re not growing at all right now – we’re kind of staying the same, and it’s totally okay, as long as it’s sustaining itself and we’re focusing on improving so that when we do get new accounts, we’re ready. I’m not saying we’re not getting new accounts, but it’s not these giant leaps and bounds that we had before.

I think we’re so – it’s human nature to be very “grass is always greener” – like, “It should be faster, it should be faster.” But it’s like, could you handle faster? Like, really? Maybe not.

Helen: What are you willing to give up in order to have a bigger business? And are you able to give that up? That’s the question.

Stephanie: Well, and especially – we’re not in bubbles. When I started my business, I was 22 years old, no children, no responsibilities other than caring for myself. I had another job, but that is very different than a lot of folks I talk to who have sometimes an infant, or are giving birth and they’re like, “I gotta go clean.” And I’m like, “What?”

So you have to give yourself some grace. I’m not saying don’t have discipline and high standards for yourself, but take a look at your life and realize that if you have children or you’re the primary caregiver, or you have health problems that mitigate your ability to do physical labor – you can’t compare yourself to 22-year-old Stephanie who could just work her ass off with no consequences.

Helen: Of course, and also the standards, right? The quality of service that you’re able to provide. Now I follow up with every single new client that we have. I personally follow up with them whether they want to speak on the phone or do back and forth texting.

I have the time to do that. I speak with every client – I can spend an hour, if need be, with every client, really getting to know them and their needs. And I feel like that’s what people like about Cool Peaches. When they’re reviewing or posting on Facebook about us, that’s what they’re saying: “If you want someone who really understands what you’re looking for and cares, call Cool Peaches Cleaning.”

If we were to grow quickly, I wouldn’t be able to provide that level of service. I would need to outsource certain things. And I’m just not ready to give up the reins just yet.

Maintaining Client Relationships and Retention

Stephanie: And honestly, as you continue to hone in on whether your competitive advantage is that you listen and care better than any other cleaning service in the area – that you’re not just a run-of-the-mill, quick wipe down, mass production (a lot of franchises are very much like this) – if you can stand out in that manner and that’s your competitive advantage, doing anything that would hurt that would be a poor choice.

Helen: Absolutely. My first mentor with whom I signed up, I remember asking, “How many recurring clients do you have?” The response was, “Well, not many. Most of our clients stay for two, three cleanings, and then that’s it.”

To me, that didn’t sound right, which is fine – that could be absolutely fine for certain businesses, I’m sure that’s a model that could work as well. But I wanted to focus on building more of a recurring clientele where people really stay with us for as long as they need a cleaning service. And I think we’ve been successful at doing that so far.

Stephanie: I’m really wondering, when somebody does cancel, really tracking why they’re canceling. Why are people leaving?

We just had multiple cleaning clients die, and that’s why they canceled. It’s very sad when it happens, but we’re like, “Wow, if that’s the main reason for cancellation, we’re doing good.” Our cleaners were heartbroken over this. It’s really hard when you have a client pass away. It’s a very intimate thing to be in somebody’s house. You’re connecting with them in a way that not a lot of other people have the opportunity to do. So if we lose clients by death, I feel that we’ve got some customer loyalty!

Helen: For sure, that’s one way to tell – either they’re moving or they’ve passed away.

Stephanie: That’s how we lose clients. Honestly, we have lost several from price too, just like they can’t afford us right now. But asking and seeing those patterns – is it a quality thing? Is it consistency? Is there nothing that makes you special over some other hot, shiny new cleaning company? If that’s the case, there’s a problem.

We want to build roots and longevity in the client’s mind by standing out. Like you said, that personal touch – this morning I spent several hours doing my monthly Loom recordings, where I record my anniversary shout-outs. I make a video thanking personally every single client whose anniversary is in March, and I schedule out the email to go out saying thank you.

I don’t do calls anymore because I would be on the phone for hours since I can’t stop talking, as everybody listening knows. So it’s not scalable, but I can record a personal video.

Helen: That is such a great idea. That is working really well.

Stephanie: They really enjoy it. Not everybody responds to it, but at least it’s there. You’re putting in the effort. When I think of systematizing personalization, that’s a great way to go about it. I want to have personal touch, but I don’t even live near my business anymore, and I’m not gonna call them. But I can do this.

Helen: That is a great idea, my God. We’re going to be coming up on some anniversaries as well. That is a fantastic idea. I’m so stealing that and implementing it.

Stephanie: It’s really cool to then see and call out, like, “Whoa, today several had five years, several had four years, many had three years.” We’ve got longevity here, and this is amazing, especially thinking how much of a train wreck things were back five years ago. These people stuck it out with us through multiple price increases.

I know we all say customer appreciation is so important, but I think it can kind of just go over our heads of like, “Yeah, okay, what can we do?” It is, of course, listening, checking in often. I think that, to me, is one of the best ways to avoid cancelations – those frequent touch points, asking them how it’s going, giving them that space to vent and really push them on it.

I find, especially with women, they will just hold it in, hold it in until they have like six little things, and then they cancel without notice. And it’s like, “Why didn’t you say anything?” It’s like, well, guys, are we asking? Are we saying, “I want to know the littlest thing that we could do better. If you had to pick something, what would it be?”

And then they might say, “Well, you never put my rugs back right after you mop the floors, and it annoys me, and I feel like a Karen saying it, but I’m saying it.” And you’re like, “Great, I’ll put it in your notes. We’ll make sure your cleaners never do it again. No problem.” And again, validating them – they are paying for luxury, and that’s not obnoxious. That’s a good point.

Helen: And absolutely relating to the clients. Most of the time we can. Certain things we can’t, but we can put ourselves into their shoes and say, “Okay, if I was in their home, that’s their thing.” I have my things, that’s their things, and making them feel okay about it.

I feel like clients really just all of a sudden breathe out. And you’re right, I’ve had that happen where I would reach out to clients saying, “I just wanted to check in, see how things are going. Is there anything that you would like for us to change? Anything that you want to mention.” And so many clients are surprised by the fact that I’m checking in. They’re like, “Oh my God, this is so nice. Everything is great.” Or, “No, this could be done better.”

I don’t think a lot of businesses do that, at least not in this space, and by doing that small thing just puts us eight steps above other businesses. And you mentioned your customers sticking with you through the price increases – it’s worth it. It’s worth it for them to stick with you, knowing that you will care to put the rugs back the way they want you to.

In our business, I think still, in the world of technology where things are going all digital and less personal, sticking with personal check-ins or doing a video goes a long way.

Balancing Quality, Pricing, and Business Decisions

Stephanie: It really does. Especially if you focus on residential – it’s harder to keep commercial. I’m not gonna lie, guys, we just did a price increase on a dance studio that we’ve been cleaning for two years. They canceled. This is their last month, but we had to do the price increase because we were averaging out at like $37 per hour.

Our cleaners, when I say they look like they’re near tears, I’m not exaggerating. Hannah, who’s my quality controller, she’s listening to this right now, and she is nodding her head, because they have eight dance rooms and four restrooms and we have to clean all the mirrors.

Even if you have enough time, it just sucks. I hate cleaning there. It’s a beautiful facility, it’s just dance studios are kind of hard, and they’re very hard on the cleaners. So we did the math, and even though I had a feeling that they would cancel, I was like, “Yeah, I think this is going to happen. This is going to push them over.”

It didn’t stop the fact that it had to happen. Those are the decisions that are really hard to make sometimes, because you’re like, “I’m going to lose this.” But keeping it doesn’t make any financial sense.

Helen: And they might be back. I’ve had some customers who have come back to me because working with other businesses didn’t work out. And that’s the best feeling in the world.

Stephanie: Absolutely. If there’s ever a validation that you need as a business owner, when you have a customer leave and then come back – it’s the best feeling ever. It keeps you good for the rest of the year.

Helen: Oh yeah.

Stephanie: I don’t know if you’ve had this happen yet, Helen, because you use independent contractors, right?

Helen: Yeah.

Stephanie: That’s what I thought. So I’ll be curious to see if this has happened for you. We have had cleaners go and start their own cleaning business and taken clients with them. When those clients come back from a former employee who maybe didn’t leave on the best terms – that feels really good.

Helen: “I can’t get it anywhere else.”

Stephanie: “This is as good as it’s gonna get, and I just proved that.” I didn’t have that happen. I did have a cleaner leave not really on the best terms, but not on horrible terms either.

Like I said, I had one cleaner bring in another cleaner, so they’re all chain-connected. Her friends ended up staying with me – they were working together, and her friends ended up staying with me. Then probably about four or five months later, she ended up asking if she could come back. Slowly she is coming back. Her quality of work has been great. She was just thinking that the terms weren’t fair, and I think she tried on her own or working for another company.

Independent Contractors vs. W2 Employees

Stephanie: Have you run into any problems? Obviously there are lots of ways to structure staffing – I’m a W2 girl, Helen’s an IC girl. So any challenges or benefits that you’ve seen running ICs?

Helen: I think the benefits that I see is that there’s no predefined umbrella of hours that we need to discuss up front. I can kind of start as slow as I need to with the understanding that as business grows, as reviews grow, or I receive more and more positive reviews, then we can scale up.

I love having that flexibility with independent contractors. I don’t know, maybe eventually I will switch the model, but in New Jersey, we can do either. I don’t foresee, at least not for the next year, changing anything. I like to have the flexibility of not needing minimum hours or not confining myself to a certain amount of hours for every cleaner.

Stephanie: That’s a great point, because though I say, “Yeah, hire part-timers,” you still have to hit something for them. It’s like, “Okay, I still have to get 20 hours or whatever for them as part-timers,” because that was my kind of workaround. But it didn’t make it any easier when we had several cancelations and you’re stressing because you’re like, “I gotta get jobs.”

That being a benefit, especially in the beginning – and the beautiful thing is, you can always transition or do both. You can strategically use one in one space, one in another. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

Helen: I foresee myself sticking with the IC model for the near future, just for the sake of having the flexibility in the number of hours and not over-promising and under-delivering, then being strapped for having to provide or paying out of pocket for the number of hours.

Stephanie: Being ICs, do you pay a percentage of the job or an hourly rate?

Helen: I do a flat rate. You can translate it into percentage of the job – it does essentially translate into percentage of the job, but it is a flat rate. I’ve tried hourly with the cleaners as well, and it just wasn’t as easy for whatever reason.

Stephanie: I feel like with ICs, it makes more sense to do a flat rate or percentage however you want to, because they are their own business entity. So that makes more sense like, “This is your job price,” whereas an employee is much more used to doing hourly.

Again, you could flip-flop that, and people make it work. You really have to look at what makes sense for you and also your area. I know in Jersey, employees are more challenging – I remember from our conversation, you said staffing is tough.

Helen: It is tough. I feel like my team members appreciate knowing how much they’re going to make upfront, having that certainty. Of course, things come up – cancelations, sometimes last minute, kids get sick, things happen. But nonetheless, especially for recurring clients, not having to continuously worry about the hours and knowing how much they’re going to be making this week, next week – it just works. So I’m sticking with that for probably always.

Handling Price Increases

Stephanie: Love it. So when it came to increasing prices, obviously that meant increasing the price for your ICs as well. Is that how you handle it?

Helen: Yeah, absolutely. We haven’t – sorry, start listening now. Remember…

Stephanie: “I heard on Filthy Rich Cleaners…” My employees are gonna listen, and then they do not! I mean, I asked them about their bowel movements today in our team meeting. We talked about cheese consumption, and I asked if this is HR appropriate. And Crystal nodded. So I was like, “Okay, I’m asking – you eat a lot of cheese. Are you okay?”

Helen: Talk about building rapport with your team.

Stephanie: Basically, I’m just like a sister who, apparently, technically is the boss, but I don’t-

Helen: Which is great. I mean, I love the fact that you have – and that’s where I kind of miss having that connection with other business owners, which is part of why I joined BNI.

But oh yeah, we talked about cheese. About the price increases – I haven’t really increased the prices on our recurring clients yet, but I should and I will. On the new customers I have increased prices.

So again, it could be for the same size house that now one of the cleaners is getting more versus for the client that they had for a while from the beginning. So yes, it does transition into them making more. But it also, of course, transitions into me making a little more as well.

Stephanie: Absolutely. And that’s the thing with price increases – it is so staggered and gradual. That’s what we’re about to do on a lot of residential. Our current hourly rate for new clients is $55 per man hour. We’ve got a ton at $45, and they may have started at $35 years ago. We got them to $45 now, let’s get them to $50. The goal is to get everybody to $50.

So we’re aiming for a tighter price range, because the goal is always to get our average appointment price up – not only for first-time cleanings, but for the maintenance cleanings, because that’s where the money is.

It truly is gradual. For all of you who are considering doing price increases, which is pretty much everybody – there are definitely some customers you probably need to increase prices on, I would guarantee it if you’re listening to this. We do them in batches. We never do across-the-board increases. We do a couple at a time, because then, at worst, only a couple are gonna leave.

Mostly, if they’re your customers and they’re loyal, if they’ve been with you for years – like these people I’m talking about – that means they appreciate and value your service. If you can (I don’t want to say justify it – doesn’t want to make you sound like you’re making excuses) say, “Hey, in the past two years since we last increased your price, these are all the benefits we’ve added. We’ve increased wages to this. We’ve done all of this charitable giving.” Your money is going to good things.

That’s why – I mean, it’s good to do those things, that’s important to me culturally, but also then it makes sense why we would increase. It just makes sense to the client.

Helen: How often would you say that you increase your prices? Is it every year that you review your clients?

Determining When to Increase Prices

Stephanie: We look at it more at a close rate level, I would say. It’s like, how many are we closing? That could be many things, so take this with a grain of salt.

I know from an industry standard that we are probably where we can be in our area. We could probably maybe get up to $60, but that’s pushing it, just from what I know the market will bear. And how do I know that? Our close rates – how many people are saying yes versus no.

As soon as that starts to edge up, even over 50% – if it pushes to 60% or 70%, automatically prices need to go up. Too many people are saying yes. And if nobody’s saying yes, that doesn’t mean your prices are too high. It may mean that you suck at sales. So keep that in mind, and don’t automatically say, “I need to lower prices because nobody’s saying yes.” It means there might be a problem with your sales process.

But when it comes to current clients, at most I would do it every year. We just realized, “Oh, a lot of these people, it’s been two years.” So it’ll be two years in April. Every year is fine – a lot of coaches will tell you to do a price increase every year. I think that’s fine too. But for us, we’re comfortable with every two years.

For some commercial accounts, it may be in six months. We just started a commercial account we grossly under-bid, because it’s a school and when we bid it, it was during an off season – the kids weren’t in school, so we didn’t see what it was like under operation.

We’re about to almost double the bid, and hopefully they take it. We’re going to give them multiple options, and they can pick and choose. But either we need to rotate tasks more, or price needs to go up significantly, because we’re losing our butts on it right now.

That’s a perfect example of sometimes you still get the price wrong. But we can’t just leave it. We have to do something.

Helen: You have to do something, absolutely. So for those customers, after you send that anniversary message, then you hit them with-

Stephanie: “Give us more money.” She’s good. Two days later, “Also this.”

Helen: “Oh, that’s when you know that you have-“

Stephanie: -brought flowers and you’re like, “What did you do?”

Helen: Absolutely. This is great. We just developed a strategy.

Stephanie: The strategy, guys – make them feel good first! Just stagger it – we’ll do five clients, see what happens, do another five, see what happens. We’re lowering the risk if we do lose any.

Again, I always talk about opportunity cost – okay, say we lose this client. They were at $45 for four hours. We booked that same spot with that cleaner at $55 an hour. Okay, four hours times $10, that’s $40 more for that one spot, and they’re probably twice a month. There’s $80 more a month from that same time slot. And that’s literally the math I’m doing in my head when they drop.

Not saying it’s a good thing when somebody drops, especially if they are a loyal customer, because there is a lot to say about that loyalty and word of mouth. But if $40 is going to make or break them, or whatever the amount is – we are a business, we’re still a business, guys.

Helen: At the end of the day, yeah. I was just thinking the same thing. There are certain customers that we have where I was just bidding to get customers, just to fill in the slots. Those prices just don’t really make sense at all.

Again, it would suck to lose a customer who has been with you for a while, but at the same time, it opens a slot for someone new.

Stephanie: Or they become less frequent – maybe they go to monthly or something like that, and that’s absolutely an option. Or maybe a reduced number of rooms, so we can keep the same price. You can work with them for sure.

But the whole point is, on average, what you would make hourly (whether you charge flat rate or hourly, we’re talking about what you earn) needs to go up. Inflation’s like 7% every year. So if you’re not doing price increases to accommodate, if you stay the same, you’re losing. We have to do price increases. Every business does.

Helen: For sure. And just use ChatGPT and make a nice message.

Using AI to Improve Business Communication

Stephanie: Absolutely! I used to – ChatGPT and I could be dating at this point, we talk to each other so much.

Helen: Oh my god, we’re-

Stephanie: Thank you. I try not to get frustrated when it gets it wrong, like when it’s not understanding what I want. I try not to yell at it, because when they take over the world, I want-

Helen: “Hello, we were really super nice!”

Stephanie: Yeah, give them a good reason. “Thank you all the time.” And even responding to a customer, sometimes there’s just like, “Oh my God, are you freaking kidding me? What?” And I’m like, “Okay, ChatGPT, I want to say this, but make it nice and in a professional manner, make it more personal.” It puts out something still getting the same point across, but in much nicer terms.

Helen: It also teaches you – if customer service is an area you guys struggle with, or being blunt or whatever, you can’t really use the excuse of “that’s just how I am.” The customer doesn’t care what you feel about that. They’re gonna only perceive it how they’re perceiving it.

I find that I’m actually using AI to learn, “Okay, this is perhaps the proper or more succinct way to explain something,” because something I really struggle with, as we all know, is being very tangential and not very clear and concise. So AI really helps me be more concise. Then I’m like, “Okay, how do I be more clear, just in my speaking, in my communication in general?” It doesn’t always translate, but at least it’s helping me learn a little bit.

Helen: I know, I feel like ChatGPT listens to my inner thoughts somehow, and it’s like, “That is what I was trying to say, thank you.” It’s great. I use it for text messages, emails, pretty much everything – for price quotes when I’m giving a proposal. There’s probably not a day that goes by without me using it.

Leveraging Technology for Business Growth

Stephanie: And also to consider things that maybe you’re missing or having a blind spot to. Like, “I’m thinking of doing this – tell me the downsides.” It may bring up something you hadn’t considered.

A lot of people ask, “What do you do when you don’t have a coach?” Go to ChatGPT and say, “You’re a cleaning business coach. You are an expert. You run a $2 million cleaning business. I do residential, commercial, vacation rental,” and just use the talk-to-text option. Ask, “What are the low-hanging fruit areas that I can improve?” or “I’m really struggling in this area,” or “Help me consider ways I’m doing this wrong,” or “What are the most likely ways to get leads?”

That’s a great way to have a coach without having to pay for one. And obviously, podcasts, books, and all that are great resources too. But we are in the information age – there’s a lot of ways to be successful without spending a lot of money and getting the most bang for your buck.

Something I’m really proud of you doing, which you were not comfortable with, is video content. You hopped on the camera and recorded yourself when I said, “Get out there and record yourself!” Will you tell the people about that?

Helen: It’s funny, because I’m a pretty outgoing person, but it’s a different space. All of a sudden, you have to be out there.

Another thing I need to thank you for is putting video content on my website. At the end of the day, it’s such a simple thing to do. You just use ChatGPT, use the phone that’s in your pocket, make sure that your content is good, rehearse it, and put it out there.

I have had many customers tell me, “I heard you on the website. I heard your video, and you also have three boys, so you would understand. I have three kids as well. You get it, you’re a mom. You understand what it’s like to have a dog and a cat – you get it.”

Putting a face to the company makes it real. It makes you more real. It makes people want to talk to you, to relate to you. Especially since the majority of the time, the people who call us are women. So seeing another woman run the business – it’s brownie points, free brownie points.

Anyone who is putting up their website, include as much personal information about yourself as you can. It will for sure get you clients and make you more relatable, and people will trust you.

Stephanie: Again, it’s that whole standing out thing, especially in the beginning. It is hard to stand out against companies who have hundreds of reviews and who have been in business for decades. You’re like, “How do I compete?”

Hop on the camera and talk about why you opened this business, why you care about it, what you’re going to do differently for them, and what they can expect from working with you. We each have a story.

I don’t have children, but I certainly could relate to the effects on my mental health of having a clean space or a messy space, and that absolute terror when somebody is stopping in unexpectedly and the house is a disaster because I’ve been way too busy, or I’ve been kind of depressed and not able to take care of it. But that doesn’t take away the shame when they show up and I can’t even enjoy their company because I am so beside myself and apologizing for the state of my house, regardless if it’s actually bad or not – just because of my expectations.

People can relate to that. People are like, “Oh, me too!” If you can give that emotion as to why you care about this, they’re gonna pick that up. And being local to our areas – if you, the listener, are not from where you have your business, that doesn’t necessarily matter, but if you do have that local connection, use it. Use what you got.

Helen: Exactly. You’re 100% right. That is your competitive advantage, because I’ve looked at other cleaning businesses around me, and I’ve even called many businesses around me. First of all, very few picked up the phone.

Stephanie: Podcast fodder, I just knew this was going to be so fun! We should probably wrap it up, because we’ll talk for hours otherwise. But I would love for everybody to follow your business Facebook page, check out your business, see how well you’re doing. So where can they find you? Where are your socials at?

Closing and Contact Information

Helen: Majority is Cool Peaches on Facebook – Cool Peaches Cleaning. And then if anyone wants to connect, my email is info@coolpeaches.com and my website is www.coolpeachescleaning.com. Feel free to email, write, text, or call. I’d love to hear from anyone, and if there’s any advice that I can help with, I’ll be happy to pay it forward.

Stephanie: Well, thank you, Helen. I’d love to have you on again. This was a delight – useful to you guys, and not just us chitter-chattering away to the void. I had fun, and I think that’s all that matters.

Helen: As fun as I thought it would be. Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity of having me on.

Stephanie: Wherever you’re listening, please leave a review for the podcast because it helps other people discover our podcast. Definitely comment your favorite moment down below as well – that helps us with the algorithm. Give us a share. Give us a like. Tell your friends, and we’ll see you on the next episode of Filthy Rich Cleaners.

Helen: Bye-bye.

If you enjoyed this episode of The Filthy Rich Cleaners podcast, please be sure to leave us a five-star review so we can reach more cleaners like you. Until next time, keep your work clean and your business filthy rich.

Note: This transcript has been edited for clarity and readability.

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

• ZenMaid
• Cool Peaches Cleaning
• Business Network International (BNI)
• Google Local Service Ads
• ChatGPT
• Loom
• ServPro